Manley H Beams Vs Eagle H Beams

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I haven't found any. My motor is a "Heavy Rod" motor, and I know it will beat the hell out of rod bearings, we will all find out how the setup works. Manley TT I beams, 22mm pins on a Eagle crank with Manley HD TT 10:1's for E85. It may blow up the way I push things, but that is what is going into the Red 90 Talon.
I sent it to the balancing shop to try and keep her alive longer. When I was at the balancing shop, they saw my I beams and took me to another motor. It was a Ford EcoBoost. It had Eagle H beam rods and one failed just above the big journal, on the beam, but not in the middle at all, just for a note. I guess the shop thought "that guys rods look beefy, let him look at that Ford", but I really don't know why they wanted me to look and give opinions. Oh yeah, it had a hunk of block out too and I said "looks like somebody was running too much boost". They said Ford sells a block and I was thinking "Cha Ching Plus"

 

[ViciousLord]

I was dead set on eagles since my end goal is about 600ish. And extremes has them on sale too.
Now I’m kinda paranoid. Haha

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Oh don't be. I am sure I was shown an EXTREME EXAMPLE. I run Eagle rods in one of my 4g motors and one of my SBC motors. You'll be fine.

 

[donniekak]

Given that the rod cap is only being pulled by the crank during the intake stroke, you'd need to have some really heavy rod+piston combo and an extremely high rpm to out-do the bolts.
Do we even have any data that shows upgraded bolts beyond even standard ARPs have any actual benefit in any 4g63 application?

The exhaust stroke is hardest. Positive pressure air is blowing into the cylinder pushing the piston down in a turbo application. Even the exhaust stroke gets padded by exhaust back pressure.

I was dead set on eagles since my end goal is about 600ish. And extremes has them on sale too.
Now I’m kinda paranoid. Haha

I maxed out a 800hp turbo with eagles.

 

[jdxnc]

As an update from my previous posts, my Eagles survived 88lbs/min last year. I am however retiring them this year, switching over to some Pauter X-beams.

 

[curt-s]

The exhaust stroke is hardest. Positive pressure air is blowing into the cylinder pushing the piston down in a turbo application. Even the exhaust stroke gets padded by exhaust back pressure.

Hard against the rod, yes. I was talking about the cap specifically and the bolts that retain it. Crank pushing the rod up and expansion pushing the piston down against the crank doesn't tax the bolts like piston+rod mass and inertia does.
The rod bolts are mainly upgraded to withstand inertial and tension forces, but I don know if we really have a solid data-driven use case above the "old" ARPs. On standard rods, the rod itself will fail long before the bolt because they lack tensile strength, and with aftermarkets you're kind of stuck with, at minimum, ARP 2000 anyway. The custom age or whatnots.. I'm curious if there's data that shows 2000s are insufficient for our platform when not counting the Red Demon

Rather than brute strength (yes they're rated stronger), for us, I would expect they're just better at maintaining identical physical state longer when pushed. We're fairly small bore so we've got the advantage in piston and rod mass.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Not to go off subject but aluminum was mentioned and seems like a good place for more knowledge. Anyone know how the Vaders stack up compared to the previously mentioned? Pros/cons?

 

[kenuwine4g63]

The rod bolt tq spec tells the difference. The eagle rods are stronger than the manley rods.

 

[schafer240]

Here's the update I promised a long time ago with side by side photos comparing the two.

Seems like the general consensus is same same but different, the few differences I could spot are
1. Eagles have a bigger oiling hole for the wrist pin
2. Eagles small end is much wider
3. Eagles are 30g heavier than manley, which are going to put more stress on the rod bolts, but others have stated in the H Beam design the rod bolts usually aren't the factor.

Enjoy

Eagles on the Left
Manley on the Right

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Here's a bonus of a Wiseco HD pin vs a standard wiseco pin. Weight difference between them is 23g.

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[jdxnc]

Here's the update I promised a long time ago with side by side photos comparing the two.

Seems like the general consensus is same same but different, the few differences I could spot are
1. Eagles have a bigger oiling hole for the wrist pin
2. Eagles small end is much wider
3. Eagles are 30g heavier than manley, which are going to put more stress on the rod bolts, but others have stated in the H Beam design the rod bolts usually aren't the factor.

I also found in manleys catalog they rate their H beams at
750hp with 2000
950hp with 625

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Enjoy

Eagles on the Left
Manley on the Right

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Here's a bonus of a Wiseco HD pin vs a standard wiseco pin. Weight difference between them is 23g.

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I'll be pulling my motor apart for upgrades soon, I'll try to get some measurements of my Eagles, which are about 12 years old, to see if they've changed over the years.

 

[ViciousLord]

Here's the update I promised a long time ago with side by side photos comparing the two.

Seems like the general consensus is same same but different, the few differences I could spot are
1. Eagles have a bigger oiling hole for the wrist pin
2. Eagles small end is much wider
3. Eagles are 30g heavier than manley, which are going to put more stress on the rod bolts, but others have stated in the H Beam design the rod bolts usually aren't the factor.

I also found in manleys catalog they rate their H beams at
750hp with 2000
950hp with 625

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Enjoy

Eagles on the Left
Manley on the Right

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Here's a bonus of a Wiseco HD pin vs a standard wiseco pin. Weight difference between them is 23g.

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Thanks for the update! Eagles look slighty beefer. I bet the ridge on the side of the rod and cap also add some strength.

 

[curt-s]

I'm putting in a set of 6 bolt eagle H beams and can take some measurements as well, why not.

...when I get them back but they'll possibly be assembled due to balancing

 

[schafer240]

I'll be pulling my motor apart for upgrades soon, I'll try to get some measurements of my Eagles, which are about 12 years old, to see if they've changed over the years.

I should also mention those eagles came out of a 2.4 motor that was in my 2g when I bought it. The previous owner said the motor was built around 2012 ish.

And sounds good guys, the more information the better.

Also to add, this information is only for the 4g63, here's a perfect example of why. Here's Manleys, Eagles and pauter rods for all the same Honda motor, the eagles are toothpicks in comparison.

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[ViciousLord]

Here's the update I promised a long time ago with side by side photos comparing the two.

Seems like the general consensus is same same but different, the few differences I could spot are
1. Eagles have a bigger oiling hole for the wrist pin
2. Eagles small end is much wider
3. Eagles are 30g heavier than manley, which are going to put more stress on the rod bolts, but others have stated in the H Beam design the rod bolts usually aren't the factor.

Enjoy

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Just noticed you referenced the wrong Manley rod in the screenshot of the catalog. I went and looked in the catalog and the pictured rods are standard Manley H beam rods, Manley also offers an "H tuff" series which looks to be just a beefier H beam rod, then the "H Tuff Plus" are the same beefier H beam rod with upgraded rod bolts.

Here's a screen shot of the catalog:

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Damn shame there's no 6 bolt option for the H Tuff.

 

[EC17PSE]

The Eagle rods look like they have started to follow Carrillo as they look pretty close to my rods. The ribs allow extra strength, the weight is also fairly close. The Carrillo's are rated to just over 300hp per rod and is designed for high revs vs torque primarily. interesting to see they decided to lean that way on the eagles but if the material quality is good then they gone down the correct path for sure

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[schafer240]

The Eagle rods look like they have started to follow Carrrillo as they look pretty close to my rods. The ribs allow extra strength, the weight is also fairly close. The Carrillo's are rated to just over 300hp per rod and is designed for high revs vs torque primarily. interesting to see they decided to lean that way on the eagles but if the material quality is good then they gone down the correct path for sure.

Those Eagles I posted came from a motor that was already in my car so unfortunately I'll never know the exact date, but at the newest they are 2012.

 

[schafer240]

The Eagle rods look like they have started to follow Carrillo as they look pretty close to my rods. The ribs allow extra strength, the weight is also fairly close. The Carrillo's are rated to just over 300hp per rod and is designed for high revs vs torque primarily. interesting to see they decided to lean that way on the eagles but if the material quality is good then they gone down the correct path for sure

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One thing that should be noted is that those carillo rods use 3/8 carr bolts, which are a superior bolt to the arp 2000 that the eagles use.

Not sure failure wise overall how much the bolts will make a difference, but it seems like from my research that most 4g63 rod failures are the beams letting go vs the bolts, but that being said if some of the more experienced high hp members could comment on that, it'd be appreciated.

 

[1cleangsx]

Again, @Vegas Smith snapped a Manley h beam rod in half, haven’t seen a post yet on an eagle snapped in half, rod bolts are high rpm insurance, I still say bearings are cheaper than rods, if your “heavy I beam” spins a bearing you can re use the rods/pistons/block. If your h beam breaks you need a new block, rods, shrink etc etc..

 

[1cleangsx]

Those carillos look nice, I would run those. I’m sure you’d be fine on the Eagles as well. I read somewhere the Manley H beams are made in china and stamped here. Nothing against Manley, I’m running their turbo tuff tri beams and platinum series pistons, I just think maybe their h beams aren’t the best. I would personally get the best rod bolts you can, it’s added insurance and the extra spent on them is a drop in the bucket.

 

[EC17PSE]

One thing that should be noted is that those carillo rods use 3/8 carr bolts, which are a superior bolt to the arp 2000 that the eagles use.

Not sure failure wise overall how much the bolts will make a difference, but it seems like from my research that most 4g63 rod failures are the beams letting go vs the bolts, but that being said if some of the more experienced high hp members could comment on that, it'd be appreciated.

Yeah i opted for the carr bolts on these. Since the revs i plan to run are high the stress on the cals and pulling it apart are higher so i opted to go for carr and can be re used endless times if bearings need to be changed out. When discussing with my engine builder the down stroke forces are the highest on a LR high rev build so i had to worry about that and he has used these rods in many high hp high rev builds and they take the stress. So i listened to him and got these instead of the oliver I beams i wanted originally.